Ricky Sans Discusses His Role As Meme Liaison At Instagram, How They're Supporting Creators, and Why Socially Awkward Penguin Is His Favorite Meme

nstagram and memes go hand in hand, but their importance on the platform hasn’t always been paramount. Earlier this year, Instagram made the decision to create a unique position within the company that focuses on supporting the countless meme creators there. Enter Ricky Sans, who’s been the Strategic Partner Manager for Memes since starting in January. As a meme-lover and creative himself, Sans hopes to grow and support the diverse meme community on Instagram by acting as the much-needed ambassador between the two. With such an interesting and instrumental role to play in the future of memes on the platform, we spoke with him to learn more about his position, how he plans to work with creators, as well as finding out who Sans is himself (and why Socially Awkward Penguin holds such a special place in his heart).

Q: Hey, Ricky. Thanks again for joining us. So, can you start off by introducing yourself to our readers? Tell us what your role at Instagram is, and what your primary duties are.

A: My name is Ricky Sans, just to get that out there for anyone who doesn't know me yet. The actual title of my role is Strategic Partner Manager for Memes at Instagram. So what that means is I support meme and creators, help them grow, evolve and excel on the platform — and this is literally my dream job. I get to work with the most innovative artists who are pushing culture and creativity forward. I also spend a lot of time focusing on identifying new creators and really help educate them with our tools and resources so they can scale and be successful on Instagram.

Q: Before we get too far along, I’d like to learn a little more about your background. Can you tell us how you got started in a career that revolves around social media?

A: I have to admit, I'm like fully addicted to social media, so that is definitely where it all begins. Being able to find a job that supports my addiction is just awesome. So before coming to Instagram, I was an executive producer at Buzzfeed, and I started there in 2015, which was such a formative and exciting time in digital media. During those early days at Buzzfeed, it really felt like what we were doing was “digital disruption” to how traditional media was created and functioning. What we were doing just seemed super “punk rock,” and that was exciting.

I’m a creative person. I love art. I love creativity, and being able to push past traditional norms is what I live for. You're constantly needing to hold traditional media or mainstream media accountable with really fresh, exciting, edgy content, and that's what was happening in those early days at Buzzfeed. So I got addicted to that feeling. It was lucky that my passion was also my job at Buzzfeed. I was managing initiatives and teams that also focused on pushing innovation and creativity beyond expectations.

Q: Yeah. I think it's really important to get those perspectives outside the mainstream media to kind of counteract a lot of the bias we see there.

A: Definitely. There's an anecdote that I always carry with me. When David Bowie first came out, he was the most unique performer. He pushed so many boundaries, and then he blew up because he was unique. He was something fresh, something different. The story goes that, of course, every person at the label was like, “How do we get more David Bowies? We need more!” But that's not the point. The point is originality, and there’s no other Bowie.

Q: As Instagram's Strategic Partner Manager, one of your main responsibilities is to work closely with meme creators on the platform. What’s your history with internet and meme culture? Would you mind sharing some of your earliest experiences online that played a fundamental role in inspiring your career today?

A: As far as strictly memes go, I think the era of what that I was really tuned into was more like an irreverent, abstract meme space. So like Philosoraptor, I Can Haz Cheeseburger, Advice Animals for sure, and Awkward Penguin was kind of my spirit animal. I just really loved the weird nature of memes at the time and how different everything was.

(Ricky Sans' favorite meme, Socially Awkward Penguin.)

At Buzzfeed, what our philosophy and DNA was about was understanding how content got shared. So whether it was about video, posts, anything, it was understanding the psychology of why humans share content. What we were trained to do was be able to create content regardless of the format or mechanic that content was presented in. How is this viral? How does this share? What's the human connection? This is when I really got obsessed with understanding the human connection and viral content nature of everything. So memes to me were just like the pinnacle of that because what I was really attracted to was simple ideas.

Q: So when did you start working for Instagram, and how did the company come to view memes as a part of the online community that deserved special attention?

A: I started earlier this year in January. We really wanted to have someone from Instagram close to the meme community to build a deeper connection with all the well-established meme accounts and also really on identifying the next generation of meme creators. This role is so incredibly important, and I think you kind of alluded to it. It's long overdue because memers have been highly influential on Instagram. Being able to work with creators that are innovating in this space where mainstream pop culture is still trying to wrap their brains around it is not only exhilarating for me, but also for Instagram.

This is where so many born and bred creators are coming from, and we understand that. We want to nurture and take care of that community and to really support and help these creators scale and grow. Instagram and memes are essentially synonymous. So many people share memes on Instagram, it's just part of the experience. I have such a love for innovation and creativity and just the individual experience that our artists go through, and I want to take that empathy and build that bridge to meme creators.

Q: As someone who works in the world of memes myself, I know explaining your career to friends and family can be somewhat difficult. What did your close family and friends make of your role when you first started, and how do you explain it to people today?

A: This is a lucky position since I've been in this industry for a while. A lot of my close friends and family get what I do, but there’s definitely been a couple of friends and family who, out of the gate, are like, “Oh my God, you get to work with meme creators, like this is your job? What?” I'm always pinching myself when I have to acknowledge it, then I'm like, “Well, yeah, I do work with meme creators. This is awesome!” But then you get someone like my aunt where you have to “peel back the layers of understanding.” You say, “Okay, well, this is what a meme is,” and then hopefully she gets it … but then you have to explain what Instagram is. Now, I think she definitely gets it because I get bombarded with New Yorker-style political cartoons and she gets really frustrated if I don't give her like a “haha” on IMS of like approval or anything. [laughs]

Q: The internet and memescape are constantly changing and evolving at an ever-increasing rate. So how much has the position changed over time since you started out? What are some of the biggest challenges you’ve faced over the years?

A: As I mentioned, I've only been in this role for about eight months, and the amount of change that's happened during those months is just tremendous — which is what memes inherently do. They're constantly changing because they're reflecting the change in the world. I think the rate at which it’s changed is based on the unprecedented events of 2020. So that's really been what's boosting so much of the changes memes are constantly reflecting. All the creators are keeping up to reflect on what's going on in the world, so I understood the bigger, you know, “lift” of supporting meme creators and the constant change. I didn't anticipate 2020, no one did, so I think what would have been a year-long strategy got condensed into like a month or so. It really was a crash course into learning the ins-and-outs of Instagram.

I quickly found myself helping a lot of meme creators to pivot their strategies on Instagram to reach and connect with their audiences in a much deeper, more meaningful way. When the world went into lockdown, you started seeing the “work from home” and “social distancing” memes more than ever. It was clear that memes became so important, and they've really been helping to bring the world together and offer comedic relief. Meme creators have also been so instrumental in getting important, factual information about COVID to the community on Instagram and supporting others who are hurting so much right now.

We had “Dude With Sign” create a series of memes, which were essentially one of the first “meme PSAs” on Instagram. With the guidance of world health organizations to spread accurate information about how to prevent the spread of coronavirus, Dude With Sign is now doing a social service to the world. Then you have Tank Sinatra. He hosted one of the first-ever IG Live telethons to raise money for his organization, the True Hero Fund, which is dedicated to supporting medical heroes fighting the war against COVID-19. That was a really cool moment because he was able to bring it so much of the meme community, like SunnySideup, Adam the Creator, and also pull in people outside of the meme community like Mark Cuban and Rob McElhanney and Caitlin Olson from It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia. So it was crazy, [to see] the power of memes work to improve people's lives.

You also asked about challenges, obviously, all those were challenges for sure, but the biggest challenge is just not having enough time in the day. This role is overdue and needed, there’s such a backlog of issues that tons of meme creators need help with. It pains me to not be able to get back to everyone in a timely manner, but I'm only one person. Anyone reading this, [just know] that I'm trying to get to everybody in a timely manner. I love everyone, and everyone's concerns are all valid.

Q: Given your work in the industry, how do you think the advent of social media has affected memes over the last decade or so since becoming so prevalent? What are some of the biggest positives and negatives to come from this phenomenon?

A: This is a good question. So I think how we communicate on social media is literally how memes came to be. If you were to go way back to the beginning of humanity, like when we were in a cave, the social circle of sharing memes would be cave paintings, also folklore stories being passed down from generation to generation. It fuels the fires of how we communicate. Social media has just really defined how we consume, share, and identify with memes.

Today, because of social media, we're more connected than ever and memes are a big part of how we express ourselves and find this shared connection. So on the IG side specifically, we have tools that allow anyone to share content, and through Instagram, that’s driven through billions and billions of people across [the platform].

Q: What about Instagram as a platform for memes specifically? How do you think it’s impacted memes on a broader scale?

A: I think that what Instagram has done is really create the deep, “democratization” of memes, which is so important. Anyone can create and share them. There's little to no barrier of entry to creating a meme anymore, and that's so important because art and expression should be for everybody. The democratization that Instagram allows and that impact are just huge. To answer your question of how Instagram does that, I think how it’s evolved from a photo-sharing app into an app that has a creative suite of tools is so cool.

You have Stories, which is not only just a way to share memes, but you can also upload a photo, add text, take a screenshot, or create a simple macro-type meme that you can share. Then you have IGTV, which allows you another way to express yourself with long-form content. Especially with the release of Reels, you now get the opportunity to play around with short-form content. Even more importantly, you can edit within the app and you don't have to know Adobe Premiere or After Effects. I think one of my personal favorite aspects of how Instagram has impacted memes is the DMS [direct messaging system]. DMS is a huge vehicle for our users to share memes with friends and family on a bigger scale.

Q: To build off that, what are a few ways that memes on Instagram differ from other social media platforms or sites? Are there any major advantages or disadvantages you think it offers as a medium for memes and their creators?

A: It’s really interesting because I do think there’s a whole different set of creators on each platform. Each mean creator knows the best ways to use each platform, and the advantages that Instagram brings is the suite of creative tools. Memes are meant to be shared, reinterpreted, remixed and be reflective of who we are as individuals and communities. Instagram, in particular, gives meme creators the opportunity to connect with their audiences on a global scale. With new forms of expression, like Reels, that’s tapping into a whole new global audience reach. You're able to share to feeds, that’s going to friends and family, and you're also able to share directly to Explore so you're getting out into the whole entire world. I think Instagram is the only place that connects you with your friends and interests. At Instagram, we just want to give creators as many tools as possible to create, so I think that is an advantage that we're focusing on and that we support.

Q: One of the interesting advantages of Instagram is the ability to really connect with meme creators. Since memes are driven by their creators, what are some of the ways the platform supports them, and what tools are provided to allow for them to thrive? Can you explain what role you think Reels will play in memes?

A: Reels is really awesome and exciting. It presents meme creators with a lot of opportunities to grow creatively and reach new followers. Right now, Reels is at 15 seconds, so I think what meme creators do really well is having simple ideas and being able to execute in a concise manner. [With] the 15-second time constraint, restraints are like a creative person's dream country, we need those types of constraints. So it leans into the strengths of meme creators, and being able to take that challenge is really cool. Another opportunity is that the space on Reels is still really early. Meme creators have a blank slate and the opportunity to define what Reels content looks like and to define what a “Reels meme creator” is.

Q: What about some of the responses from creators since your position came about? How has the community responded to your role and involvement in the space?

A: It’s been great. I'm really, really happy with the response. We’re definitely presenting it as an opportunity and a way for meme creators to evolve. It's in their hearts to just constantly want to grow and evolve, and I think that comes from the nature that you have to make memes a lot and also change what you're covering. There's a lot of constant need for movement and progress in the arts and meme creators anyways, so I think giving them this big opportunity to now branch out into short-form video is really exciting for them.

Some creators off the top of my mind that are really doing a great job jumping straight into it. [One is] bunnymichael. Bunnymichael is great, [their Reels] are all about positivity, spirituality, and, especially right now during these times, a pillar of light. They have this static-image meme, which is called “My Higher Self,” that kind of like plays like the devil and angel in your head. It presents a low self-esteem perspective and then how you can reword that into a positive perspective. They instantly adapted that into Reels as a video. Bringing the image to life and being able to see that translate is really cool because they're not just ditching their brand and their voice and what they've built, they're adapting and growing.

Q: We've spoken to meme creators in the past who expressed issues with reaching audiences on the platform, specifically in regard to their content not appearing on the Instagram Explore page. Has this been something you've had to address, and if so, what steps have you taken concerning it?

A: So Reels is definitely an opportunity where we're focusing on growth from the Explore page right now. We've reformatted the Explore page so that the Reels-only content has three-fourths of the page. So when you go to Explore, you’ll see tons of Reels content, and it's right there in your face. As I mentioned, you now have the option to share to either your feed or you can share to the Explore feed, and then get seen in front of billions of people. We also, now, are doing featured content for Reels. So [we’re] focusing on trying to really like “bump up” the Explore experience, and more than 50 percent of accounts on Instagram use Explore every month. But yeah, that’s kind of where that focus and energy is.

Q: When rolling out new features, such as the semi-recent release of Reels, how are the effects on content creators considered with these new changes? How does the company maintain the trust of its users?

A: I'm here to support, build trust, advocate, hear feedback, and share that with Instagram for the meme community. At the highest level, my existence at Instagram is to think about the creators’ experience on the platform. To your question on products, tools, rollouts, and anything that could have potential effects on meme creators, we always want to diversify the experience, and my job is always to listen to feedback and relay that to the product team. I came from a creative background at Buzzfeed, and one of the things I was really excited about coming to Instagram was having that perspective from a creator. Instagram cares so much about creators, and this is what I'm here to do. I'm empathetic. I understand. With Reels, I met one-on-one with as many creators as humanly possibly. I want to hear feedback. Instagram values the meme community, and if [they’re] not having a good experience, that is something we address, and they hear my feedback and it's a constant loop.

Q: Speaking of features, can you tell us anything about new tools or mediums that meme creators on Instagram should look out for in the near future?

A: So just last week [end of August], we rolled out an app called “Whale” which is all about meme creation. Video is for sure something that’s a big focus. We're always looking for ways to innovate on Instagram. AR [augmented reality] is another big focus. With Spark AR technology, there are so many viral moments on Instagram being driven by meme creators. The cool thing is that Spark AR lets creators and brands build and publish AR effects across the whole Facebook family of apps. I think it's [AR] just going to push how memes are created and how they look because of the evolution of social media technology.

Already, you see that [with creators like] Pablo Rochat. He's a superstar creative genius [who] created an AR where you can scramble your face and try to match different parts to it. Jake Bird brought that “My Last Two Brain Cells” meme to life with an AR [version] that he created. So, already, these meme creators are taking new technology as it comes at them and just knocking them out of the ballpark. They're creating meme AR formats, and that's just bonkers to me.

Another thing to focus on will be shopping experiences on Instagram. I think the intersection of meme creators and retail will be really interesting. Memes are becoming a lifestyle, so we're already seeing this with Instagram Shop and our checkout tool, which lets you buy products directly from an account’s page without leaving Instagram.

Q: With such a huge audience, what is Instagram’s role in overseeing global movements or solutions that you guys are actively involved in, or does the platform typically approach those kinds of things with more of an open stance?

A: Instagram, by being a social media product, is a part of culture and a part of what's happening in the world, and there are so many creators that are doing a really good job with that. Saint Hoax has kinda been leading the charge on so many important conversations around civic engagement in a meme-worthy, informative way. We have Kareem, who's amazing. He's a meme creator and comedian [whose] been using IG to raise awareness around the Black Lives Matter movement. We have LatinaRebels, who's just amazing, using traditional meme formats to celebrate Latina culture. Our tools are nothing without our creator community that is using it to express themselves.

Like we mentioned with COVID-19, that was a big focus for us. So we looked to partner with creators on getting that messaging out there with the tools and accurate information. We do a lot of work supporting small businesses with shopping and checkout. So to really answer your question, every initiative that we do, we're also looking at the creators who are doing it really well, who are breaking barriers and leaning into conversations about social, political, and racial justice issues and how we can partner with them — whether it's how to help amplify their message or ours and how we can work together to make this year about helping the people that need the help right now.

Q: As social media becomes increasingly more prevalent, how do you think the future of the industry, as well as Instagram specifically, will affect the world of memes in the years to come? Are there any big trends or shifts you’re seeing now that you think we’ll continue to see down the road?

A: Being an anonymous meme creator kind of goes hand in hand with the meme space. There's like that “mystique.” I love it, but I definitely have been noticing more meme creators are putting themselves center stage. So I think there will be less anonymous meme creators than there have been in the past and will become more “personality focused,” especially with the introduction of Reels and video formats that allow for more personal expression.

Q: As we’ve seen in the 2016 presidential election and our current one, especially with things like Meme 2020, what role do you think memes will play in the future of politics as a tool for political campaigns? Do you think this is merely a fad or something that’s here to stay?

A: Overall, I think the answer to any questions of “if memes are here to stay,” whatsoever, yes … definitely. Everybody is starting to understand the power of memes, so the move to use meme creators to reach new audiences is a good idea. So many teens and millennials use Instagram as their main source of news, and memes are just a great way to make sure that reliable information reaches a broader audience that these traditional outlets have not been able to tap into. Again, like Dude With Sign and COVID, it's just the power of memes, it's there. As far as the Bloomberg and the Meme 2020 campaign goes, I think it was definitely a good learning moment to make sure our community uses our branded content disclosure tools.

Q: Alright, so these last few questions are more specifically geared towards you. On the topic of memes, what are some of your recent favorites that’ve been floating around online lately?

A: I love this creator named Today Was My Birthday. It's so great. Now that I think about all this stuff, I loved your question about “what attracted me to memes in the first place.” And with Today Was My Birthday, I realize the reason why I really loved their account is that it brings back that nostalgia, like “first discovery” type of moment in my heart. They're a new creator, but they do a great job of encapsulating, essentially, like the past 20 years of memes all in one. It's irreverent, it's original, social commentary, witty — it just feels punk rock. So when I talk about favorite memes, I also want to dig into a little bit more of what I look for from good meme creators that connect to my heart.

Memes, from my perspective, are less about the format and much more about the mindset and philosophy. It's not that I'm always looking for formats or whatever, it's how people are philosophically thinking about execution. I think memes, now, is like a mindset, and meme artists are a mindset much in the same way that punk rock isn't about the type of music — it's about the musical philosophy, the counterculture. Today Was My Birthday just fully encompasses that spirit, so I love that account. Something I always look for from my favorite creators is the idea coming through. Going into a format, I love surreal memes. I love just having my brain be challenged. It's like art, you want to be challenged when you look at it.

Q: Since you’re the Strategic Partner Manager for Memes, do you ever dabble in creating some yourself? What memes does the Instagram team share internally?

A: Everyone at Instagram shares memes the same way everyone on the platform shares memes. We're all fans of memes. One of my favorite things about video production was the editing process. I just have such an affinity in my heart for like After Effects and Premiere, so I have played around a little. I love Large Trap, who’s just a great video meme creator, so I feel aligned to him. I only share with my friends, maybe I share with coworkers … maybe I have a secret Finsta [fake Instagram] that you follow and don’t even know that it’s me. Who knows? I'm gonna stick to the “mystique” meme creator vibe.

Q: Okay, so before we finish things here, I got a tricky question for you. What’s your single favorite meme or character from memes throughout their entire history?

A: Yes, it's hands down a tricky question. [laughs] But I actually have an answer to it. Awkward Penguin. That is my favorite. I have a deep connection to it. So when my wife and I started dating, Awkward Penguin was pretty popular, and my wife and I were also very awkward in the beginning stages of our relationship. Literally, we would just communicate on text messages through Awkward Penguin memes. To know how like “full circle” everything has come, it's just so heartwarming to me. I'm indebted to Awkward Penguin for helping me communicate and express myself to my wife.

Ricky Sans is the Strategic Partner Manager for Memes and Meme Liaison at Instagram. You can check out his Instagram account or Twitter to see what he's up to. Editor's Note: This article first appeared in the October 2020 issue of Meme Insider, a magazine covering memes and other internet phenomena. You can subscribe here.